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i saw an interesting discussion elselist, based on one question, and i thought it might be interesting to share around it; the question is broken up into parts:
For submissives/slaves: Do you really want to be submissive, or is it something that you think you have to do in order to please someone? Furthermore, if you do want to submit, do you ever have trouble doing so? Do you think your Dominant/Owner understands what you really want to, even if you have difficulty understanding just how to go about it?
For Dominants/Owners: Do you think your submissive counterpart wants to be submissive, or are they just doing it to please You? Furthermore, if they really do want to submit, do You ever see them struggling with it, and if You see that, do You help them out at all, or let them figure it out on their own? Do You ever think that Your submissive/slave counterpart really wants to submit, but might be having difficulty in submitting?
i'll use myself as an example. Back in the beginning, i knew i was submissive; did i want to be a slave? nothing was less sure... a retrospective verified that i am walking a thin line between both. However, due to a wide variety of issues, i had difficulty at times. Under some Trainers and Mentors, i have been a blend of reactance and resistance, and been called "free bird" and "butterfly/tigress". Recently, One has reminded me that under the right Dominance, i can bloom gloriously.
What are your thoughts on the questions above?
~~~~*~~
"To serve is beautiful, but only if it is done with joy and a whole heart and a free mind." - Pearl S Buck
L'esclave a sa vanité, il ne veut obéir qu'au plus grand des despotes. H. de Balzac
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do i really want to be a submissive?
with every fiber of my being
with every breath i take
with every drop of blood in my body
with every single tear and every bruise
every welt and every single time i am told how proud Someone is of How i am and who i am
i am proud of being a submissive.. i think this poem sums up how i feel
I am a submissive woman
~Author Unknown
i find pleasure, joy, and fulfillment from being submissive
to my Master in a loving relationship.
i am not weak or stupid. i am a strong woman,
with firm views and a clear concept of what i want out of my life.
i do not serve out of shame or weakness, but out of pride and strength.
i will look to my loving Master for guidance and protection, for never
will i be more complete than when He is with me.
i know that He will protect my body, my mind, and my soul
with His strength and wisdom.
He is everything to me, as i am everything to Him.
His touch awakens me and His thoughts free me.
Only in serving Him do i find complete freedom and joy…
His punishments may be harsh, but i accept them thankfully,
knowing that He has my best interests always foremost in His mind.
If He desires my body for pleasure, i shall joyfully give it to Him
and take pleasure myself from knowing that i have brought Him happiness.
However, the pleasure of the flesh is but one facet of O/our relationship.
The love, the trust and sharing, the words spoken and felt,
those are all parts of this relationship.
My body is His, and if He says i am beautiful, then i am.
No matter what i look like to others, i am beautiful in His eyes,
and because of that i hold my head high.
If He says i am His precious jewel,
then i am that…a beautiful, sparkling gem.
If He says that i am His pet, His slut, His whore, then i am that..
as wanton and dirty as He wants me to be.
My mind is His, to expand, to explore, to know only as He can.
i have no secrets from Him… for secrets are a thing that would
keep me from being more perfectly His.
Secrets would put a wall up between my Master and myself…
and i do not want walls.
His lessons are not always ones i would seek on my own,
but they are lessons He has decided that i need, and so i learn from Him.
My soul is His, as bare to His touch as ever my skin could be
when i kneel naked at His feet.
Never a moment goes by when i do not feel His presence,
be He miles away or standing over me.
If i were to ever displease Him, His displeasure would be a blow to my soul,
worse punishment than any lashes could be.
The anguish of my soul that i feel when i disappoint Him
is harder to bear than any physical anguish i feel.
i am grateful that he cares enough about me to spend
His time and energy so freely on me.
i have the easier job, to feel, to experience,
to let myself go and abandon everything to Him.
i am His pleasure and His responsibility, and He takes both seriously .
i am a submissive woman.
i am proud to call myself that, my submission is a gift that i do not give lightly,
and can only be given to the One who can appreciate that gift and return it tenfold.
Only to my Master who has that strength, will i give myself fully,
because i am strong and proud.
i am a submissive woman.
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| it's funny to see this topic, i am currently reading a book shades of grey, well actually it is a trilogy and it is all about the dom and submissive......very interesting, very sexy.
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*smiles at elus*
Great topic, beauty.
my answer to the first question is i definitely want to be and at the same time feel i have to be, but not because anyOone expects it of me.
i have gone through periods over the last 15 years where, for one reason or another, i have fought my submission, ignored it, and totally turned away from it. But those times haven't lasted long because it truly isn't something i choose; it's just a part of who i am and i both crave and need an outlet for it.
i want to submit because i find great comfort, pleasure and fulfillment from doing so. But i also have to submit because to not do so just feels unnatural somehow, as though i am only going through the motions of living.
Do i have trouble submitting? Absolutely. And often. And probably for some of the same reasons others do. In my r/t, i am the one 'in charge'. It takes a conscious effort to switch gears and relinquish control. It is also a very vulnerable feeling at times to submit totally, and regardless of whether i want it to or not, my self-defense mechanism kicks into gear and puts up some walls to protect me from that deep vulnerability. And lastly, even after all these years, there are days when i doubt my submission, or compare myself to others and come up short.
But then, there are those days when i feel so in my element, when i can see so clearly that this path truly is one meant for me and i just let myself revel in the knowledge that i am where i belong, doing what is right for me.
Those times when i have doubted or struggled, i have been fortunate enough to have One Who reminds me what He sees in me, reinforces His belief in me and my ability to serve and to please, and i am able to regroup and continue down the path.
************************************************************************
There is a very pure freedom to be found in complete submission.
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I think a few also have trouble with submission because they have the title/role of submisive is assumed simply because their kink/needs fall into that category, and are conflicted if they aren't actual submissives, which is why some have suggested that the term D/s is misleading and would prefer the term "receptive" instead of submissive as a more appropriate generalization as it doesn't create a false expectation for those who aren't submisives but are bottoms, or have some BDSM fetish/kink etc.
If a real submissive has troubles submitting, imagine how difficult for someone who isn't submissive at all, but assumes they fill a particular role because of their particular kink. I wonder how many fit into that aspect of struggling with submission.
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My first thought to this question is that for something to be true, for it to be real, I had best be getting real, honest responses from a submissive. I do not want canned replies, something robotic. If there isn't a time a submissive struggles, I'd be suspicious as hell that I'm not getting their honest responses..
I expect there to times that My commands cause internal struggles.. I know this means there will be times a submissive will struggle to comply, and other times where they simply can't help but comply, where the need to submit overwhelms the submissive.. This is the beauty of submission in My mind.. the struggle that occurs.. between the need to submit, and the fact that at times, they resist that need.. how they resolve it.. how they communicate the struggle to do so, can cause growth if the Dominant realizes the opportunity They have, to teach and counsel.. and can cause issues if not handled in an appropriate manner
It has been My experience to always try to help.. this is done in various ways.. one way is to not give in to one's resistance.. Consistency is very important... another way is to give them an assignment, to help them to understand why it is they are resistant to giving in to the need..
It would also be beneficial, that anger not play a part in the initial response to a submissive struggling.. the Dominant needs to not take it as a slight to Their Dominance.. it isn't because the submissive doesn't want and need to submit.. this is where guidance and teaching can overcome fear, confusion, uncertainty, doubt, previous experiences, and Wwho knows what else, that may be causing the struggle to give in to their need.
A submissive should always feel comfortable enough to come to their Dominant, and tell them they are struggling.. with the understanding that being honest in communicating this to their Dominant, will not result in punishment.. With open communication between Ttwo, this removes one barrier to resolving the struggles a submissive may have..
Where I would punish, however, is should I learn that My submissive was struggling.. yet hadn't told Me.. and was not giving Me their honest and true responses.. there is no growth, there is no true interaction, there is no learning, if honesty and truthfulness are not the cornerstones of interaction between Ttwo.
"People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they're not on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost."
~ H. Jackson Brown
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Do you really want to be submissive, or is it something that you think you have to do in order to please someone?
in the beginning it was to please another. i didnt have a clue what i was doing or why. i was very lucky that the person knew me better than i knew myself and was willing to explain and teach with kindness and a firm hand. He taught me not just about being a submissive, but about who i was and how that being submissive was part of that.
Furthermore, if you do want to submit, do you ever have trouble doing so?
i have at times. there have been times i have wanted to please so much i have tried to be something else for someone. i have tried to top because it was something desired, and struggled with not being good at it because it is simply not me. there is little i wouldn't do to please the one that asks, and it does raise conflicts in me from time to time. like now, i am not sure i have it in me anymore ~smh~ i am wrestling with who i am and what it is i want. i often wonder if we go through phases of submissive and dominate through life, or if it is life putting me in situations where i have to be very dominate to get through... or perhaps i just fight what i want and need ? not sure, hence the struggle
Do you think your Dominant/Owner understands what you really want to, even if you have difficulty understanding just how to go about it?
the right one does, but i really believe there are few that can tune in enough to really see deep inside. it takes time and caring. i will say i am still friends with the one who taught me, and to this day with a simple look or even the sound of my voice He knows where i am at in my head. scares the hell out of me ~lol~
Laughter is timeless, Imagination has no age, and Dreams are forever.....
What would you give a man who could make your deepest dreams come true?
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When I was a very young Dominant, I had a rt submissive that resisted kneeling. Being new to the lifestyle, I didn't understand it, she always obeyed Me except when I asked her to kneel. she would either take a very, very long time to actually bring herself to the floor, or at times just stand there in defiance and I would have to physically take her by the shoulders, or hair, or hands and force her down. The things that went through My mind were, does it hurt her phsycially to kneel, is this some limit, why didn't she tell Me, WHY won't she kneel? It was horribly frustrating. SO of course I asked her, and her answer shocked Me, and it even formed some of My philosphies about D/s in the years to come. her answer?
To linger in the moment, to reaffirm herself as My submsissive, to see a hard look, to feel a stern hand, to hear a controlling voice to the point it almost buckled her knees on their own. To feel the descent down in some slow motion where she is Mine on her way down, but is completely owned once her knees hit the ground. That was so profound to Me as her Dominant and made Me realize that so often when a submissive struggles, when she resists, it isn't because she isn't being submissive, it is because she craves a strong hand of control. We all need those affirmations in our relationships so they don't stagnate. I have often said that submission is where the need to be obedient collides with the desire for self preservation. It is human to struggle against control even when you desire to be obedient. If I am sitting watching TV with My submsissive, and the show gets to some really interesting part, and I ask her to go get Me a drink, that's not pleasant, she has to miss something she wants to see, and I am probably not recording it. Self preservation tells her to sit and watch the show, and screw My drink, but her need to be obedient and please Me overrides that. The same thing in a painful scene, unless someone is a hard core masochist, pain is not pleasant, and when it gets intense, the need to be obedient and please collides with self preservation. That fight or flight instinct kicks in, to take the pain and please, or run from it. There is always going to be that struggle, and it is a matter of whether the will to please wins. So if We as Dominants start to see a struggle in Our submissive to comply to the point they are not submitting, then communication is critical, is she doing it as some need to be subdued, to feel a strong hand, to find some reaffirmation in the dynamics of the relationship, or is something awry?
~~~~~~
[Without your submission, My Dominance is just a desire unfulfilled...]
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do i want to submit?
because of my job situation i hold a position of power,i am part of a team that supervises a large work team......what i find hard is switching from that role back to where my submission is.
there are certain things i find i am very submissive in and other things because of my personality i struggle with or a past bad experience.....but it comes down to choice.....i choice to submit because i know i will be in that place of calm.......knowing who i am.....knowing that i am cherished and cared because.....knowing that in giving me willingly over i am where i need to be to be..... whole.....does that always happen....no.......factors come into play.....but i do it and hope that i can convey my thoughts and feelings afterwards as to where i was in my mind at that moment......i hope so.......but it is always a road of learning and discovery.......it is always opening up and in it teaching me new things about myself.....about who i am....what submission is to me......submission is different for everyone......personalities differ in that process........so i think as long as you are open and can comunicate it is changing every day.......
i am pretty but i am not beautiful, i SIN but i am not the devil, i am good but i am no angel......................~Marilyn Munro~
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Do you really want to be submissive, or is it something that you think you have to do in order to please someone?
I didn't choose submission, to be honest. The same way I didn't choose my sexual orientation. I believe that being submissive has a lot to do wirh my very checkered sexual history, but it comes very naturally. It feels amazing to give myself to someone, to trust them completely. I enjoy that aspect a lot.
Furthermore, if you do want to submit, do you ever have trouble doing so?
I have always had trouble in the past, but I feel like that has more to do with a lack of trust for my Dom. When our relationship initially started, the trust was there and it was not hard at all to submit. But he broke my boundaries a few times, did things that I told him were completely off limits, and after that he no longer had my faith, I couldn't comfortably submit to him anymore.
Do you think your Dominant/Owner understands what you really want to, even if you have difficulty understanding just how to go about it?
It depends on the Dom. Some Dom's are fantastic about understanding their subs needs, and they can also tell when to not cross a line. I suppose that is the sort of Dom I am looking for. One that can push me to the line, but never cross it. I know it's out there because I have witnessed it, I just have yet to find it for me.
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