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Kasteele,
I don't consider myself so much "pro Israel" as "anti hamas".
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Hamas calls on EU to open direct dialogue
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-07/25/c_13414670.htm
On Saturday, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said his country was ready to hold talks with Hamas if it receives an official request from the Palestinian National Authority (PNA), led by President Mahmoud Abbas, Hamas' bitter rival.
The United States led an international campaign to isolate Hamas after it won the parliamentary elections in 2006 due to its refusal to recognize Israel, renounce violence and accept interim peace deals.
====================
I think it is important to remember that the reason we have come to this point is because of hamas intransigence. Hamas could have ended this at any time by coming to some consensus with the rest of Palestinian leadership. As long as the Palestinian people allow this disunity among them to exist, there will be no single voice to speak for them. The international community is forced to choose a side and speak only with them.
Hamas is isolated now. The only legitimate discussions they can have are with the PNA over palestinian reconciliation. They are desparate for any kind of recognition or dialogue with ANYONE, just to give themselves some (any) kind of legitimacy.
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what you consider yourself and what you are displaying yourself as are two different things sadly. Hamas is no worse than Israel if you look at the truth. It is a sad situation, but the two terrorist groups should both be put to rest.
If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true, is really true, there would be little hope of advance......
Orville Wright
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Last week, the Arab League told the Palestinian Authority that they could start peace talks with Israel, and within hours, a rocket was launched from gaza. Now, there's been another rocket launched toward aqaba, and now, a border skirmish with Lebanon.
It seems that some forces will do anything to derail the peace process.
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and kasteele,
how I display myself and how you interpret that are two different things.
I am hardly unbiased, but you seem to consider hamas somehow equal to Israel as far as terrorism is concerned. Nothing could be further from the truth. Hamas has demonstrated a disregard for life, and considers civilians mere tools in their fight agains Israel. Israel, on the other hand has demonstrated a willingness and desire to begin peace talks with the legitimate Palestinian Authority. Israel has also demonstrated a regard for human life. They don't fire indiscriminately, they target hamas and their supply infrastructure.
Hamas starts problems by firing rockets indiscriminately, while Israel merely responds to their provocations.
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Your insane attacks on Islam make me want to vomit. It's like you do not think other faiths, especially Christians, are bad. Well, let's go dude;
. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and
female, provided they are from neighboring nations. Can I own Americans please?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair
price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how
do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors.
They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated
to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there
'degrees' of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading
glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room
here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.
19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes
me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two
different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments
made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also
tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go
to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?
Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family
affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy
considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true, is really true, there would be little hope of advance......
Orville Wright
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Kasteele,
I don't know what set you off this time, but, if you look back on this thread, I have never attacked islam, I have attempted to highlight the antics of hamas. I want to show everyone what kind of a group they are.
However, if you really feel the need to vomit, you go right ahead.
but, in an effort to demonstrate, again, what kind of organization hamas is,
here is the latest from them.
======================
Hamas Targets Disloyal Public Workers in New Decision
http://www.themedialine.org/news/news_detail.asp?NewsID=29710
Gaza’s de facto government is barring civil employees from membership in outside organizations.
A new decree by the Hamas government in Gaza is severely harming civil society in the Gaza strip, warns a Palestinian human rights organization.
Decision number 48, issued by Minister of Interior and National Security in Gaza Fathi Hamad, targets civil employees who have decided to suspend their positions for political reasons.
The new Hamas decision prohibits these workers from affiliating with charitable and civil society organizations in the Gaza strip. Many Gazan Palestinian Authority employees loyal to Fatah have voluntarily suspended their work following Hamas’ takeover of the Gaza strip in June 2007.
Al-Ghussein denied that the Hamas decision was a form of collective punishment, regarding it as lenient.
“By law we could have put these men in prison,” he said.
Hamdi Shaqura of the Palestinian Center for Human Rights said his organization has noticed increased Hamas harassment of NGOs in Gaza over the past two years, including intervention by its security apparatus in the work of civil society organizations.
“This is discrimination on political grounds,” Shaqura told The Media Line. “It is clear that the people [targeted by the decision] have stopped working for political reasons.”
Shaqura pointed to a previous decree issued by the Hamas government in February, banning public sector employees from working or volunteering in civil society organizations.
“The new decision prevents people from even belonging to an organization, and it specifically targets those who have decided to stop working [for the Hamas government].”
Mahmoud Abu-Khamis, a former employee of the Palestinian National security forces currently employed by an NGO dealing with women’s issues said the Hamas decision indicated a new trend in the Gaza strip.
“This is part of the ‘Hamasization’ of society,” he told The Media Line. “Hamas has taken over all mosques, schools and kindergartens, and has begun to take over a Palestinian Authority university. Now they want to take over the NGOs.”
“NGOs should not be part of the political problems between Hamas and Fatah,” Abu-Khamis concluded.
=================
"Hamasization’ of society,” oh man! what a scarey thought!
I would call that the antithesis of civilization.
K,
notice? I didn't target "islam", but I pointed out what hamas is doing.
oh, and btw, please, in the future, try to stay on topic?
the topic here is "hamas"
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Nothing really set me off, I thought the post was rather ironically funny. While you personally attack only an Islamic group, you say you are not attacking Islam. Okay, I was not attacking a specific church, but a loosely connect group of religious fanatics.
If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true, is really true, there would be little hope of advance......
Orville Wright
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Hamas: Palestinians will gain nothing from direct peace talks with Israel
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/hamas-palestinians-will-gain-nothing-from-direct-peace-talks-with-israel-1.309748
Israel and the Palestinians accepted on Friday an invitation by the United States and other powers to restart direct talks on Sept. 2 in a modest step toward forging a peace deal within 12 months to create a Palestinian state and peacefully end one of the world's most intractable conflicts.
Speaking at a Gaza Strip mosque on Monday, Haniyeh said that the scheduled negotiations would not restore Palestinians' rights or give them control over religious sites, saying that they "should trust God, who will be an ally of the Palestinians."
According to the Ma'an report, Haniyeh also praised the steadfastness of the Palestinian people in the face of Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip, saying the Palestinians were a "model for the Arab nations and Islamic countries."
On Sunday, Ma'an reported that Hamas had cancelled a planned reconciliation meeting with rival Palestinian faction Fatah over the weekend over the recently announced direct Mideast peace talks.
The meeting was meant to be another attempt at ending divisions going back to the militant Hamas group's violent takeover of the Gaza Strip in June 2007, which left the more moderate Fatah movement in charge only of the West Bank.
According to the Sunday report, the meeting, which was to take place Saturday evening, was indefinitely postponed with Hamas official Salah Bardawil telling Ma'an that Fatah had "made it too difficult" for the meeting to take place.
Earlier Monday, Haaretz reported that PA President Mahmoud Abbas had warned that renewed Israeli construction in settlements after the end of the construction freeze in late September would bring the newly-launched direct negotiations to a grinding halt.
Abbas conveyed the message in letters sent to U.S. President Barack Obama, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and the High Representative of the European Union on Foreign Policy, Catherine Ashton.
"It's impossible to conduct negotiations alongside settlement construction," Abbas wrote.
================
again, another example of hamas obstructionism.
Maybe this time there will be some progress in peace talks.
hamas has an opportunity right now to be part of the peace process,
but they have consistently called such efforts "collaboration with the enemy"
and refused to participate in them or take any actions that will further such efforts.
and kasteele, I am not attacking "an Islamic group", I am highlighting a political group.
Their association is the political rule of gaza. (hamas)
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Dummy, no worries there. If I had a choice, Hamas would be quietly taken out back and left bloody in a shallow grave. Although many think I support them, I do not. I support the people who are being forgotten in the mess they call negotiations. I also support free elections, wiothout the threats and intimidation that got Hamas elected. Thugs are thugs, in Palistine and in America.
If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true, is really true, there would be little hope of advance......
Orville Wright
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this is the latest regarding hamas and their relationships.
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Hamas slams PA for preventing meeting opposing talks with Israel
http://www1.albawaba.com/main-headlines/hamas-slams-pa-preventing-meeting-opposing-talks-israel
Hamas on Thursday condemned the Palestinian Authority over its refusal to allow a meeting of factions which oppose direct negotiations with Israel. The meeting was planned for Wednesday in the West Bank city of Ramallah.
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Gov't won't increase electricity to Gaza
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=186139
Israel has balked at a request to boost the amount of electricity it supplies to the Gaza Strip on the grounds that it does not want to cooperate with the Hamas government there.
“Mr. Blair raised the issue at the request of the Palestinian Energy Authority in the Palestinian Authority. Our discussions are ongoing.”
Since the beginning of the year, Gaza has been experiencing power cuts – sometimes lasting for eight to 10 hours – due to a shortage of industrial fuel to power the turbines at the only electricity power plant in the Gaza Strip, located near the Nuseirat refugee camp. Israel supplies Gaza with about 60 percent of its electricity.
Blair’s appeal encountered a cold refusal from Shalom, who is also the minister for regional development.
“I expect the international community to pressure Hamas into accepting the Quartet’s conditions,” Shalom said in a press release published by his office following the meeting. “I regard Hamas as responsible for the suffering of residents in the Gaza Strip.
Israel cannot afford to cooperate with a terror organization that wishes to annihilate it.”
“In 2005, Israel signed an agreement with the Palestinian Authority to provide electricity to Gaza through a new power line, No. 161. The Palestinian Authority even paid part of the sum for its construction, but the Israelis never implemented the agreement,” Zibda said.
Shawwa said the PA had paid Israel NIS 7m. for power line 161 in 2005, but it was never built due to Hamas’s takeover of the Gaza Strip in June 2007 and Israel’s policy not to strengthen the rule of Hamas.
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Why doesn't America just tell Israel to nuke Gaza and get it over with. Slowly torturing them to death is cruel.
If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true, is really true, there would be little hope of advance......
Orville Wright
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