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thumper...no worries on the word...not taken offensively at all....~+smiles+`
Vindicator......aye I agree that homosexuality has no clear cut anything......it is one of the most debated topics and everyone thinks they have the answer......
so I can only speak for Myself.....for some maybe it is a choice....but for Me.....it simply is not.....it is who I am period...no choice....I could not choose to be straight.....it would be like choosing to be black...well I am white and that ain't changing...anymore then My sexual preference......
~+nods softly and slips out+~
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LadyWolf, you have never asked me my particular preference nor have I made it widely known.
Because I am married to a woman doesn't make me automatically heterosexual.
Your assumption saddens me as you can not know my history without asking me for it. I understand that you have only seen me flirt with women but that not is not enough to make a true and accurate statement about my orientation. One line in particular that I stated in a previous point makes it clearly obvious.
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Tiger......actually I do know you like both sexes Dear.....You have told Me as such......but being bisexual.....does not make You gay.....it is truly is a different thing.....not better nor worse....but different......I make no assumptions about Anyone C.......or at least I try not to......nor would I aaume to know truly why I am who I am in the end.....just as even with Your amazing intelligence You do not have a clue what causes homosexuality...actually..no one truly does and that I believe.....but I will not question what makes Me happy.....nor who I am in My heart....I will fight for My rights as an equal human being.....I will not be told I can choose to be straight because I can truly not and I will not hide who I am for I am proud of who I am......no matter how I got this way.....
~+smiles at the Tiger...leaves a hug and slips out+~
SW~bron
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gotta say...
i am LOVING this mature,intelligent debate,SW and Christopher.
really,really loving it.
great opinions on Both Your parts.
Live.
Love.
Laugh.
Sleep Later.
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LadyWolf, I am not stating that I do know, for a fact, what causes the differences in orientation. What I am doing is positing a theory based on genetics and the evolution of a species over time as well as expounding upon that theory. From a genetic standpoint only,ie not my personal opinion, it does not make sense for not-reproductive strains of DNA to continue to evolve and develop. It's like taking entropy and opening it on one side so that it no longer conforms to thermodynamic law.
I have never said that I was homosexual. In fact, I decline to identify myself in any way as I do not believe my orientation makes me what or whom I am. I make me what and whom I am.
I have not asked you to question what makes you happy. In no way have I asked you to explain yourself personally. I have, however, asked you to explain how you believe orientation is inherent and not an act of choice. I have, in effect, asked you to create a counterpoint to my theory.
If it "just is", without requiring proof or supporting evidence, then it is no longer fact but, instead, becomes a belief. See my point? That's like saying "God just is. I require no proof to support his/her/its existence.". Different subject, same logic.
However, I am very interested in hearing your response on this. What is the the difference, if any, between two men who are committed to one another, and homosexual, and two men who are committed to one another, one bisexual and the other homosexual?
Can you please draw me a clear and definitive line where that commitment, where that concern for the other's well being and, indeed, the love held is seperate from both cases?This message was edited by Christopher on 10-16-06 @ 4:56 PM
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[Smiles]
Thank you, sinnin. LadyWolf and I have a common respect for one another and we're mature adults. Ergo, we can disagree without devolving in to junior high personal insults.
Even if we agree to disagree, it doesn't make the fact that I respect the Hell out of her any less than what it was before we started debating.
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sinnin....thank you...and Chris is right that We have a great of respect and caring for eac other...so it truly become an honest discussion....not silliness and mud slinging....whisich is nice.....
Tiger.....I do understand what You are saying....and from a scientific point I cannot sya because I am not a geneticist nor anything in that nature of things....therefore I must go with what I feel about it within Myself.......all I can speak from is My own experience........nothing more...nothing less.....though I will say that in nature homosexual tendencies are displayed many times over....and there are creatures who have evolved to reproducing on thier own without a partner......so if nature can see fir to evolve in such a way...well we are not above that......
and in no way is the love any different if one partner is gay and bi......never implied as such and if I did it was not what I menat to do....I meant simply.....that to be bisexual and to be gay.....are different....in that to be bi....you know you have feelings for both sexes....to be gay....you know that your feelings are for one sex and one alone......and that it is not a choice........
and no C...I know You are not gay.....but you have implied You find men attractive........therefore....technically bisexual......but here I do agree with You that labels are not a neccessary thing.......~+nods and smiles+~.....
SW~bron
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Ladywolf, I am not a geneticist either but I have done a great deal of studying in the field of genetics for other reasons.
Yes, we see acts of homosexuality in the mammal kingdom. We also see murder and other acts that we have previously attributed to solely existing within human beings. However, I do not believe that we can equate the actions of the animal kingdom with the actions of humans. Humans have a much higher brain function which the scientific community generally believes helps shape the future development of the species as a whole.
Asexual reproduction would be disaster for us as a species and, quite honestly, would deprive of us of the greatest past time since we learned how to skip the first flat rock across the surface of a pond. Sex is awesome, no matter whom you engage in it with.
How is being bisexual, homosexual or heterosexual any different from one another when we are discussing a commitment to a partner? I don't have to be homosexual to understand the depth of commitment and love you have for bron. You do not have to be bisexual or heterosexual to understand the same feelings I have for my Lady. How does orientation in any way enter in to that feeling?
Whatever body the soul you love resides in is, in my opinion, irrelevant.
[Laughs softly] Let's not try to pin down my orientation in public. It is not something I wish to openly discuss. We can in private, if you wish, however.
]Sig[
I don't play video games. I train in murder simulators.
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Tiger.....well now I will only say that I disagree about humans being top of the intellectual ladder.....tis not nature destroying the very world we hope live in for thousands of years to come......nor raping thier own children...selling them to other predators ect.......we are a depraved species and the saddest part....we do it for pleasure...not survival.....though that is in itself another whole discussion....
and asexual reproduction would not deprive us of sex C....simply would mean it was more for pleasure then reproduction nothing more......
and the feelings of love and commitment are different person to person.....but no different no matter your sexual oreintation......butttttt it is different to be gay then to be bi then to be straight.....very different....in many ways.....
and yes we can discuss your sexual preferance privately but you did post openly on a gay thread and you did accuse Me of making an assumption which I did not....so I was only making a rebuttal......
~+leaves a hug and slips out+~
SW~bron
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...tis not nature destroying the very world we hope live in for thousands of years to come......nor raping thier own children...selling them to other predators ect.......we are a depraved species and the saddest part....we do it for pleasure...not survival.....though that is in itself another whole discussion....
Correct, for that is a moral discussion and morals do not equate to biology or genetics. Nothing in biology or genetics prohibits your above examples.
sexual reproduction would not deprive us of sex C...
Yes it would. Were the human being asexual, they would have dwarfed and non functional secondary sex characteristics as we know them today. The penis? Don't need it. Vagina, uterus and ovaries? Probably blend in to one and breasts would be largely extraneous. See Discovery's "Evolution of Man" for a better explanation and possible future mutations. Biologically, there is no need for mammalian reproductive organs if the host can do it all internally. Further, the drive to pair would become significantly less intense and thus radically changing the culture of Mankind as we know it. Again, see Discovery's "Evolution of Man". It was a great four hour series.
butttttt it is different to be gay then to be bi then to be straight.....very different....in many ways.....
I am still waiting for you to show me, without anecdotal evidence, what these differences are. What you have provided thus far falls squarely in the realm of the pscyhological and not within the confines of the biological.
]Sig[
I don't play video games. I train in murder simulators.
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